From: shaadi@vt.eduDate: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:58:52 -0600
Shahira,
I'm glad you asked :) and I'm glad Maged was able to capture some of our
feelings in words! you see the GPS which died on us was only the
beginning of our problems/adventures/challenges. Halfway to the cave we
find out that we had consumed more gas than we expected. We did some
calculations and decided to continue. The person who described the cave
to us told us it was behind a "small black mound (Tabba Saghirah)". And
he gave us coordinates to enter in our GPS and let it guide us.
Getting where the cave was supposed to be, we find DOZENS of "small
black Tabbah" AN AN AN :) we were confused. We barley had enough gas
to take us back. Faced by dozens of Tibab peaking at us. Any one of them
could be the one. No Koshk Sagaeir to ask for directions :) We were in a
tough part of the desert. We were frustrated. We almost panicked. We
were LOST! AN AN AN.....
So we just turned back and headed home :)
Anyway, the wisdom behind this. It turns out the coordinates were in the
wrong format. Some more calculation and we concluded that the place
could be within a radius of 1 km. And no gas to go searching for it. So
yes, GPSs, as technology in general is, are only as good as how well and
accurately you use them. And of course also as good as the batteries you
have or don't have. So instincts and common sense are your best friend.
And I'm sure Maged and Mabrouk (Mohamed :) ) would also have a lot to
say about this :)
However, to me such challenges are part of the desert enjoyment
experience. And I would do it all over again any time!
Hope you all have a wonderful day.
Salam,
Shaadi
Maged Toson wrote:
>
>
>
> ezayek ya Shahira: and all the others offcourse
>
> are you sure you want me to talk about how Shaadi and i learned how to
> not depend on the GPS ,the hard way.?????
>
> well first let me tell you that Shaadi and i have done a great deal of
> safaris around the egyptian desert, and we hardly had any problems.
> and when we did it wasnt because of the GPS .
>
> usually we would get stuck in soft sand or in marshes or a steep hill
> that we cant accend. in other words it is usualy my fault since i`d be
> the driving
>
> but last Jan we desided to discover a new place that we had never been
> to, AN AN AN.....
>
> We head on to "kahf el jara" which is a cave in the middle of the
> desert some were northwest of Baharia oasis. we started going offroad
> be night.......AN AN AN
>
> after about 30 or maybe 35 Km into some of the wildest desert in egypt
> our GPS went off and didnt start up again for a technical problem that
> we dont know till now. why do i say wildest desert, simply cuz we were
> very close to "3`ard Abou Mo7arek" sund dunes that are very soft and
> almost impossible to cross exept from cetain points.
>
> It was dark, it was getting cold, it was getting gloomy, it was scary
> ,it was just the two of us, we were all surrounded by mountains, it
> was very hard tring to find the track ,it was the DESERT, no joking in
> the desert, no means of communication ( no phone), limited fuel,
> limited water, limited food.
>
> But we had another GPS with us so there wasnt really a big
> problem.......... :)))
>
> well Shaadi ...do you want to tell them what happened the next day
>
> CU
>
> TooSoon
>
>
>
> >From: "Shahira Osman"
> >Reply-To:
> >To: "Shaadi Elswaifi" , "Sahara Safaris"
> >Subject: RE: [SaharaSafaris] desert..........oh
> >Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:52:56 +0200
> >
> >Tab why dont u share with us the lesson you learn last hard jan...
> >as this will teach us not to rely on new technology more than our own
>
> >instict
> >(akeed ya maged mafeesh kheiry who can ask this similar Q..:))) )
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shaadi Elswaifi [mailto:shaadi@vt.edu]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 4:47 PM
> > To: Sahara Safaris
> > Subject: Re: [SaharaSafaris] desert..........oh
> >
> >
> > Hello Maged and everybody,
> > There is an online overview about the GPS. There is a section there
> about
> >error sources also. The site is
> >http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html
> > Regarding your recent findings in Sinai Maged, didn't we have an
> exchange
> >waypoint agreement between us?
> >
> > By the way, a note for all interested GPS users. GPS is a wonderful
> >device, it makes you feel as if you are playing video games and the
> desert
> >is your whole screen/field, however never rely on a GPS as your soul
> source
> >of navigation in a safari. Even if you have a ton of extra batteries
> with
> >you. Maged and I learnt that lesson the hard way last January :)
> >
> > And thank you Khalid for checking my web site. It hasn't been
> updated for
> >a while. I'll work on it soon. Monirs pictures are great and I'd very
> much
> >like for all of us to share pictures related to the Sahara and
> safaris. So
> >I'll try and post some more of mine also.
> >
> > Salam,
> > Shaadi
> >
> > Maged Toson wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Saba7 el khier ya mabrouk (it seems i`m the only one who calls you
> >mabrouk) every body calls you mohamed (at first i didnt know who is
> this
> >mohamed that shaadi is talking to????)
> >
> > :)
> >
> > well about the maps you sent ,i was woundering if you have some
> more,
> >you know that maps are a very good way to bribe me and take what ever
> i
> >have...........:)
> >
> > by the way about removing the (SA) selective availability, i can
> tell
> >you that now i can get as good as 4m acuracy on my GPS. i was in need
> of
> >that when i was taking a hike for three days in the Sinai mountains
> some two
> >month ago, i was hiking in a place called wadi el shag.......and for
> your
> >info ya mabrouk i have the coordinates of some vegitation there
> (BANGO)
> >.....i`m not joking ,i say it with my oun eyes.
> >
> > i do have a quetion though ...concerning the interferance that could
>
> >affect the GPS`s signal. do you guys have any info about that , maybe
> a
> >communication engineer on the list could answer this for us ( sallam
> >masalan )
> >
> > CU
> >
> > TooSoon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Mohamed Mabrouk
> > >To: Sahara Safaris
> > >Subject: Re: [SaharaSafaris] Re: GPS for navigation...
> > >Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:00:47 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Dear All Safarists,
> > >
> > > > Would you please explain to us more about GPS?
> > >
> > >It's as big as a mobile phone. You leave it in your
> > >car near the sky (so antennas can communicate with
> > >satellites) and it will draw the red line you see in
> > >the attached map of Sinai's wadi Kid.
> > >
> > >It actually can show you this map on its small screen.
> > >Lost? turn back on your heels and drive while you
> > >watch its screen carefully and you'll be able to get
> > >almost EXACTLY on the same line you got on even in a
> > >desert storm or by night.
> > >
> > >Impressed? well, it can actually record the point you
> > >first kissed your fiance on a sand dune to the extent
> > >that if you buried something in the middle of no
> > >where, your grandsons can come and pick it up if you
> > >saved what we call 'waypoint' from your GPS and left
> > >it for later generations to find this time-capsule
> > >only using their GPSs! :)
> > >
> > >So how this wonderous thing work? it work through a
> > >'constellation' of satellites that is there are so
> > >many of it that they cover all earth at the same time
> > >by at least 4 at every part. Your GPS must find at
> > >least 4 in the sky before they agree to show you your
> > >position on the map.
> > >
> > >Then when you start to move it draws the line you're
> > >leaving behind you. Took an interesting photo? record
> > >that waypoint and then come check on any decent map
> > >what your camera has been capturing.
> > >
> > >The image you're seeing attached here is a trip that's
> > >part of my many trips to the Sinai's St Kathrin's
> > >Protectorate. I am trying to see where vegetation are
> > >in the area and draw a map for it (if I can) for my
> > >Masters degree under the title of Environmental
> > >Management in Nottingham university.
> > >
> > >The point recorded as LUSH9 is a remarkably vegetated
> > >area you feel with the majestic colors of the rocky
> > >mountains and the thinly aromatic breeze of the area
> > >in addition to those shrubs that you're in a heavenly
> > >garden that's all yours! :)
> > >
> > >Wondering about more of GPS? well, me Maged or Shaadi
> > >could show you one next trip.
> > >
> > >I see you're working in MobiNil. I know that Peter
> > >Iskandar of the Geomarketing has few ones, if you
> > >can't wait to see one. :)) Just don't forget to send
> > >him my regards.
> > >
> > >Salaam,
> > >Mohamed Mabrouk
> > >
> > >===
>
Shahira,
I'm glad you asked :) and I'm glad Maged was able to capture some of
our feelings in words! you see the GPS which died on us was only the beginning
of our problems/adventures/challenges. Halfway to the cave we find out
that we had consumed more gas than we expected. We did some calculations
and decided to continue. The person who described the cave to us told us
it was behind a "small black mound (Tabba Saghirah)". And he gave us coordinates
to enter in our GPS and let it guide us.
Getting where the cave was supposed to be, we find DOZENS of "small
black Tabbah" AN AN AN :) we were confused. We barley had enough
gas to take us back. Faced by dozens of Tibab peaking at us. Any one of
them could be the one. No Koshk Sagaeir to ask for directions :) We were
in a tough part of the desert. We were frustrated. We almost panicked.
We were LOST! AN AN AN.....
So we just turned back and headed home :)
Anyway, the wisdom behind this. It turns out the coordinates were in
the wrong format. Some more calculation and we concluded that the place
could be within a radius of 1 km. And no gas to go searching for it. So
yes, GPSs, as technology in general is, are only as good as how well and
accurately you use them. And of course also as good as the batteries you
have or don't have. So instincts and common sense are your best friend.
And I'm sure Maged and Mabrouk (Mohamed :) ) would also have a lot to say
about this :)
However, to me such challenges are part of the desert enjoyment experience.
And I would do it all over again any time!
Hope you all have a wonderful day.
Salam,
Shaadi
Maged Toson wrote:
ezayek ya Shahira: and all the others offcourse
are you sure you want me to talk about how Shaadi and i learned how
to not depend on the GPS ,the hard way.?????well first let me tell you that Shaadi and i have done a great deal
of safaris around the egyptian desert, and we hardly had any problems.
and when we did it wasnt because of the GPS .usually we would get stuck in soft sand or in marshes or a steep hill
that we cant accend. in other words it is usualy my fault since i`d be
the drivingbut last Jan we desided to discover a new place that we had never been
to, AN AN AN.....We head on to "kahf el jara" which is a cave in the middle of the desert
some were northwest of Baharia oasis. we started going offroad be night.......AN
AN ANafter about 30 or maybe 35 Km into some of the wildest desert in egypt
our GPS went off and didnt start up again for a technical problem that
we dont know till now. why do i say wildest desert, simply cuz we were
very close to "3`ard Abou Mo7arek" sund dunes that are very soft and almost
impossible to cross exept from cetain points.It was dark, it was getting cold, it was getting gloomy, it was scary
,it was just the two of us, we were all surrounded by mountains, it was
very hard tring to find the track ,it was the DESERT, no joking in the
desert, no means of communication ( no phone), limited fuel, limited water,
limited food.But we had another GPS with us so there wasnt really a big problem..........
:)))well Shaadi ...do you want to tell them what happened the next day
CU
TooSoon
>From: "Shahira Osman"
>Reply-To:
>To: "Shaadi Elswaifi", "Sahara Safaris"
>Subject: RE: [SaharaSafaris] desert..........oh
>Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:52:56 +0200
>
>Tab why dont u share with us the lesson you learn last hard jan...
>as this will teach us not to rely on new technology more than our
own
>instict
>(akeed ya maged mafeesh kheiry who can ask this similar Q..:))) )
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shaadi Elswaifi [mailto:shaadi@vt.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 4:47 PM
> To: Sahara Safaris
> Subject: Re: [SaharaSafaris] desert..........oh
>
>
> Hello Maged and everybody,
> There is an online overview about the GPS. There is a section there
about
>error sources also. The site is
>http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html
> Regarding your recent findings in Sinai Maged, didn't we have an
exchange
>waypoint agreement between us?
>
> By the way, a note for all interested GPS users. GPS is a wonderful
>device, it makes you feel as if you are playing video games and the
desert
>is your whole screen/field, however never rely on a GPS as your soul
source
>of navigation in a safari. Even if you have a ton of extra batteries
with
>you. Maged and I learnt that lesson the hard way last January :)
>
> And thank you Khalid for checking my web site. It hasn't been updated
for
>a while. I'll work on it soon. Monirs pictures are great and I'd very
much
>like for all of us to share pictures related to the Sahara and safaris.
So
>I'll try and post some more of mine also.
>
> Salam,
> Shaadi
>
> Maged Toson wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Saba7 el khier ya mabrouk (it seems i`m the only one who calls you
>mabrouk) every body calls you mohamed (at first i didnt know who is
this
>mohamed that shaadi is talking to????)
>
> :)
>
> well about the maps you sent ,i was woundering if you have some more,
>you know that maps are a very good way to bribe me and take what ever
i
>have...........:)
>
> by the way about removing the (SA) selective availability, i can
tell
>you that now i can get as good as 4m acuracy on my GPS. i was in need
of
>that when i was taking a hike for three days in the Sinai mountains
some two
>month ago, i was hiking in a place called wadi el shag.......and for
your
>info ya mabrouk i have the coordinates of some vegitation there (BANGO)
>.....i`m not joking ,i say it with my oun eyes.
>
> i do have a quetion though ...concerning the interferance that could
>affect the GPS`s signal. do you guys have any info about that , maybe
a
>communication engineer on the list could answer this for us ( sallam
>masalan )
>
> CU
>
> TooSoon
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Mohamed Mabrouk
> >To: Sahara Safaris
> >Subject: Re: [SaharaSafaris] Re: GPS for navigation...
> >Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:00:47 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Dear All Safarists,
> >
> > > Would you please explain to us more about GPS?
> >
> >It's as big as a mobile phone. You leave it in your
> >car near the sky (so antennas can communicate with
> >satellites) and it will draw the red line you see in
> >the attached map of Sinai's wadi Kid.
> >
> >It actually can show you this map on its small screen.
> >Lost? turn back on your heels and drive while you
> >watch its screen carefully and you'll be able to get
> >almost EXACTLY on the same line you got on even in a
> >desert storm or by night.
> >
> >Impressed? well, it can actually record the point you
> >first kissed your fiance on a sand dune to the extent
> >that if you buried something in the middle of no
> >where, your grandsons can come and pick it up if you
> >saved what we call 'waypoint' from your GPS and left
> >it for later generations to find this time-capsule
> >only using their GPSs! :)
> >
> >So how this wonderous thing work? it work through a
> >'constellation' of satellites that is there are so
> >many of it that they cover all earth at the same time
> >by at least 4 at every part. Your GPS must find at
> >least 4 in the sky before they agree to show you your
> >position on the map.
> >
> >Then when you start to move it draws the line you're
> >leaving behind you. Took an interesting photo? record
> >that waypoint and then come check on any decent map
> >what your camera has been capturing.
> >
> >The image you're seeing attached here is a trip that's
> >part of my many trips to the Sinai's St Kathrin's
> >Protectorate. I am trying to see where vegetation are
> >in the area and draw a map for it (if I can) for my
> >Masters degree under the title of Environmental
> >Management in Nottingham university.
> >
> >The point recorded as LUSH9 is a remarkably vegetated
> >area you feel with the majestic colors of the rocky
> >mountains and the thinly aromatic breeze of the area
> >in addition to those shrubs that you're in a heavenly
> >garden that's all yours! :)
> >
> >Wondering about more of GPS? well, me Maged or Shaadi
> >could show you one next trip.
> >
> >I see you're working in MobiNil. I know that Peter
> >Iskandar of the Geomarketing has few ones, if you
> >can't wait to see one. :)) Just don't forget to send
> >him my regards.
> >
> >Salaam,
> >Mohamed Mabrouk
> >
> >===